145492-increase-leaver-penalty-for-dungeons-etc
Content ---- ---- ---- I challenge you to play a healer. Or better yet, a tank. Do that for a week, then come back and see if you still have the same rant. :P | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Do tell, Captain Cliffhanger. | |} ---- Indeed, do tell Also I wouldn't mind the deserted debuff actually being shorter. I've gotten D/C from enough battlegrounds to be quite disillusioned with the debuff being anything but a pain in the cupcake. It might be a better endeavour to come up with a system that better affects only true deserters (and bots while we're at it) | |} ---- Hmm ill go ahead and say: Remove any and all automatic queue systems and go back to trade chat spamming. Do i win? :P | |} ---- They have quite a harsh penalty in a couple of other MMO's I play. People get around it by doing nothing and waiting for people to kick them. Penalties aren't a deterrent, they just bring out worse behaviour. | |} ---- +1 futhermore you cant kick people out in the first 10minutes of a dungeon (why is that there anyway?) so the only option is to leave or disband and if they nay to disband and wont kick you the punishment should not be something as absurd as not beeing able to repair your gear or a 2h long debuff that effects your plans for the evening. the current system for leaving is fine and the punishment seems acceptable. | |} ---- ---- ---- Then they shouldn't be queueing random in the first place, and if they keep doing it their ability to enter random queues should be limited. Because the whole point of a random queue bonus is that you do the instance that pops. I do understand your point here. People who are actively seeking to use a game tool for a purpose for which it was never designed or intended to be used don't care about the specifics of how they achieve that goal. If you close off one avenue for them to do it, they'll just use a different one. That's because the people abusing the system aren't intent on performing a particular activity, they're intent on any activity that achieves their goal. In the case of phishing, the intent is to keep hitting the "re-roll" button as quickly as you can, for as little effort as you can, until you get the roll you want. That's the goal: to get the random roll you want as quickly and as often as possible. That is the common attribute of all strategies that involve phishing, and people who phish will use any and every tool available to them to allow them to re-roll far more often than people who don't. Because what they're after isn't the explicit option to desert or kick or disband or force others to do any of those things to them. What they're after is anything that gets them one of two outcomes: a successful speedrun of the content, or a re-roll of the instance/team to something that can speedrun the content. So the thing to identify players who are abusing those grouping tools isn't any one of those activities or who is using them or who they're being used on, nor is the solution to punish people for any individual time those things take place. It's to track the running fraction of times over a period of several days or a few weeks that a player who is using random content finder functions goes into the instance they get with the group they get and neither completes the instance without the team changing composition nor tries to make it work for some reasonable duration relative to the intended time to complete that content. For most players using the content finder as intended, that fraction will be low. Even if they can't complete the content, they'll at least try to make it work for a while before they give up. They will have some individual times when it doesn't happen, and they will have some times where they are basically forced to disband or kick someone who isn't pulling their weight. For players phishing the content finder, that fraction will be high. Either they'll decide the instance and team isn't what they want to deal with and force a disband/kick or desert as a standard practice, or they'll routinely show up so unprepared or unwilling to pull their weight in the instance that the rest of the team gives up around them. For players who rarely queue, that fraction will be dominated by random chance and sampling error, so there should be at least twice as many entries into queued content as there are days in the time window being averaged before the fraction is calculated at all. What you do to define "low" and "high" depends a bit on what the distribution of that fraction looks like over the playerbase. I would guess based on anecdotal evidence that most people would have a relatively low number and a few would be astronomical, but that's a guess on my part. Carbine isn't forthcoming with any information that would give us any real insight into the metrics here. But if what they're looking for is a way to spot the problem, that's the first approach I'd try in their shoes. | |} ---- This isn't final fantasy 14, either you can do the dungeon or you can't and why would osmebody have to go through the hassle of carrying someone for 2 hours just because they complained on the forums to increase th epentalty? | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- This. We've seen it enough in WoW where they sit there and say "kick me" just to bypass the penalty. | |} ---- hard penalties dont work because then the people just go afk and the group gets punished even more. the current system with disband vote works. if the group wants to continue you can leave and take a small penalty and they can continue by finding a new player pretty fast | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- That's what happens when you have players that think they know better and have a solution for everything. They fail to realise that the "solutions" they come up with would make things a hell of a lot worse. | |} ---- Does your ignore list block those people from joining your group if queued? Okay, before people bash, I am a veteran player and I rarely PUG dungeons. Aside from that, back on topic. Okay, going anti-PC here for a second. I think the bigger issue is the entitlement mentality or the "participation trophy" crowd. Too many people don't want to put in the effort to learn their class and the game. They want to get in and just get the phat loots and they call it a success. Now, this isn't the case all the time, but it is become a bigger issue in many ways and not just in WildStar. | |} ---- ---- People currently do not like to PUG Academy and UPG. Assuming everyone is in reasonable gear, I actually don't get the latter, but the former makes sense, as the mechanics aren't common knowledge yet, and without gear it's very challenging to teach. For example, we decided to queue up with a bunch of us from guild and blast through some random vets with a new, learning healer. We blasted through SC real quick. Then we re-queued and got Academy. I typed "LOL, I'm getting in TS", and that's what we did (we didn't use voice for SC). We got through it with a handful of wipes, explaining the fights as we went. Back in the day before random queueing, the list was KV, SC, SSM. The only instance people wanted to run was STL, because it was the only one you *might* be able to complete successfully. The random queues definitely helped get the other instances some play, as well as increasing people's familiarity with them. Note how I said we did SC without voice above? Well, back before they introduced random queueing, just about everyone used voice for SC. It's community awareness that nerfs these dungeons. I think we are kind of in the "community learning" phase of Academy, where it actually will be puggable after enough people have experience with it. UPG actually has passed that point, and as long as you have a healer who knows what he/she is doing, it isn't that hard. But some people have a knee jerk reaction to it anyway. | |} ---- ---- ----